Steve I agree obamacare is a joke. obamacare is just going to cost the tax payers more money in the end and it isn't going to be affordable at all, they are just trying to brainwash you that it is.

Watching the PATRIOT tonight. Funny don't see Mel Gibson's character sitting around waiting for a handouts. Hmmm maybe some people should take note.

Have a good time shopping around for your chemotherapy treatment.

That's funny you mention that Steve, because I did have chemotherapy for stage IV cancer, after major surgery on vital organs.

And you know what I learned, the lifesaving drugs that I received are not available in the UK or Canada under their universal health care.

My ordeal helped me earn a great appreciation for the many talented and hardworking people in the health care industry - doctors, nurses, surgeons, oncologists, etc. These are all people who work very hard, unlike any government office that I have ever visited.

Who would expect that these people give their services for free, or for government rates? So you might suggest that we make all health care workers government employees, and eliminate the evil profit from the delivery of healthcare. The thought of having a government surgeon taking a scapel to my liver, let alone deciding whether and what treatment I should receive, scares the hell out of me.

I hope you are now healthy. But the systems in Canada and the UK are very, very different. I am very glad your insurance covered your treatment, or that you were able to afford it, but not everyone's insurance will cover experimental treatment and most people can not afford it.
I also know a few "government surgeons" in the UK and Ireland that would take great exception to your suggestion that they do not take care of their patients as best as they can or that their skills are somehow less because they are in a socialized medical system.

no one in congress read the bill. votes were bought and sold, hint the corn husker kickback. how can anybody undertsand it. the clowns in congress didnt even read it before they sold there votes. what a joke.

Doctors are going to be going to self pay and then they will give you an itemized invoice for you to submit to your insurance and insurances will send you the money. Doctors pay a ton of money to go to college, med school and they have to pay back on student loans. They won't be able to make ends meet when they charge $100 a visit and obamacare on gives them $15 to see a patient. What about the malpractice insurance they have to pay out of their butt for. That $15 the insurance wants to give them isn't going to cut it. If they go to self pay then they get their $100 for the visit and insurance only gives you back the $15, will keep all the ones with fake illnesses from going to the doctors, with illnesses they read about in the internet.

Molly, your statements are wrong. First, the poll that has doctors leaving was taken out of context. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/.

Second, the law does not cost double. Swing and a miss. http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/jul/11/american-commitment/tv-ad-says-health-laws-cost-2-trillion-double-what/

Ralphie,

If private health insurance companies are so profitable, and their CEOs are so overcompensated, then why don't YOU start YOUR OWN health insurance company?!?!?!?

Call it Ralphie Care, with you as CEO. Take no salary, and make no profit. You would be able to provide the most affordable health care to all. You can cover anyone at anytime for any ailment. And while you are doing that, you can put those evil profit making insurance companies out of business.

But something tells me that would be too much work and effort for you. You would rather let the rest of the productive tax-paying people foot the bill for you.

Ralph, why should I pay for your health care. What have you done for me? I have my own business that you didn't put money into, I put my own money into it and before I hired employees I busted my butt 80-90 hours a week. Did you do any work for me to help me in my business. NOOOOOO, so why do I owe you healthcare and why should the money that I made on my own pay for anyone. No one stopped you from being self employed and making money. But you like the rest of the democrats want the ones that have done better then you to foot your bill for insurance. Sorry isn't going to happen. I want obamacare repealed because of people like you that think your entitle to what I made.

@steve, you are a nasty individual, and your caustic remarks clearly elicit the ignorant nature of your point of view. These large health insurance providers Ralph is speaking of are classified as NON-PROFIT already (therefore tax-free). I'm guessing you probably didn't know that based on your mis-informed comments.

@cc, You wouldn't help out a fellow countryman (or woman) that needed your help? Did you mind spending 550 million to 1 billion dollars on the revolution in Libya? Because that's what you spent there, I bet without even a single negative comment from you.

charles I donate my money and time to charities of my choosing and obamacare isn't one of them. Where were you and all these freeloaders that want free medical the last weekend of June when Habitat for Humanity was building a home and were looking for volunteers. 30 showed up that weekend. It is you charles and all the obama lovers that think they are entitled too and want everything for free. Go volunteer your time for someone that is truly needy, there are food banks that are always crying for volunteers, Habitat for Humanity. Go visit someone in a nursing home that doesn't get any visitors, go volunteer at a Senior Center, go volunteer your time for Big Brothers and Sisters as they are always looking for men and women to be mentors to children that doesn't have a mother or father figure.

Don't ever tell me that "You wouldn't help out a fellow countryman (or woman) that needed your help? ", because I do put my time and money into charities that I believe in.

On July 21, 2012 I am participating in a bike run for MS down at Brentwood VFW, why don't you go down there with your checkbook and make a donation if you don't ride.
July 22, 2012
5th Annual Motorcycle Poker Run for Multiple Sclerosis
Cost: $25 per Rider and $15 per passenger
Location: Brentwood VFW Post 1810, 3801 Clairton Boulevard (RT. 51) Pgh, PA 15227
Contact: Robert Frank (412) 683-7100 Ext. 2136 rfrank@ucpclass.org

Get out there and do your part and quit expecting everything for free.

people think they are going to get obamacare for cheap, that is a joke in itself unless your getting your welfarecare.

All very true, Clint. Get rid of this bill! It will ruin health care in this country and break us economically. I doubt most people have read any of that bill. The taxes, etc., are frightening. Not only that, we all know that care will be rationed. Better stay healthy, people, if Obamacare stands!

Scott, I own a business and yes if I drop insurance and pay the penalty it will be cheaper. Do most companies want to drop employees healthcare, no but when w have to pay for every Tom, Dick and Harry besides their own employees, it is cheaper for us to just pay the penalty.

Cc
And that exactly what they want to happen then you look like the evil private sector buisness owner that's too greedy with all your profits. Youre the one that takes the blame for putting people on the government healthcare system. Which ends up benefiting the govt since they control what they cover and how it is distributed.

b smith exactly. I don't want to hurt the loyal employees that I have working for me. We all are like a family. If I drop 8 employees I wouldn't have to worry about health care but do I want to hurt the trusted employees that I have, NO. Last time I hired was 7 years ago and my employee count is at 58 right now. I give them profit sharing and am paying more than half of their insurance now. Our rates have almost tripled since obamacare came about and I don't see them getting any cheaper.

Cc
so according to our dear leader all private buisnesses owner have had help along the way. Funny cause I still cant remember anyone showing up here giving us help. How about you? Hehehe I wonder what its like inside his little fantasy world he lives in.

b smith, never seen any of dear leaders come out to my business and lend a helping hand. but yet they think we should pay for them, give me a break. These are the same leaders that want to spend our money to help the poor people that put themselves in debt and can't afford their own healthcare, because they are so far in debt with their credit cards, owning a home they can't afford, take lavish vacations, cell phone bills, high cable bills BUT don't have the money to buy their own insurance. I volunteer my time, give to charities of my choice (obamacare isn't charity as it is a tax), support little league baseball and softball and will help my employees out. I think I do enough and don't want to be spending the money I made from my business on ones that do not want to help themselves, they want everything for free. These people need to wake up and walk out of obamaland as they spent to much time in his fun house.

There is something incredibly selfish about demanding something for FREE.
But, like I teach my 8 year old, there is no such thing as FREE.

So there is something incredibly selfish about demanding that future generations pay for your health care via inherited deficits, and more importantly, via impaired innovation in the development of treatments and procedures.

Bracken Burns, nothing is stopping you from working 2 jobs or purchasing health care from your employer. What have you done for me and what makes you think your entitled to the money I made.
It is the democrats and them listening to obama and entitlement. If you want health care buy it from your employer, can't afford it get a second job.

HUH???

Billie you can thank obama and obamacare, insurances are going to be paying for abortions. They are going to force the Catholic Churches to pay for them and it has to be offered in their coverage. But the Amish does not have to pay for obamacare since they don't believe in insurance and won't be taxed. Why can one group of people get one thing and the Catholics are denied what they believe in.

if they had to have obamacare then they would repeal the whole thing, but they got the best insurance that money can buy and us TAXPAYERS pay for it.

I am against the ACA, because it will not increase the quality or quantity of health care, it will have the exact opposite effect.

Subsidies (via taxes, credits, regulations, etc) artificially inflate demand and PRICE. So the ACA will increase demand and PRICE without adding any new doctors.

I say repeal the entire 2700 pages of law, and 13,000 pages of regulations, and pass smaller, individually effective laws to address the lack of competition and lack of user pay, such as:

1. Allow sale of insurance accross state lines - creating more competition and lower premiums. Did you ever notice all of the competition for car insurance? Cavemen, geckos, and Flo all trying to get your premiums, all promising savings. Why cant health insurance also be sold across state lines???

2. More direct user pay - in the form of higher deductibles and co-pays. This will provide the patient incentive to seek lower cost providers and question the necessity of tests and treatments. If a diabetic had to pay for her own insulin, she might start eating better to reduce her dependence, if not to save her health, to SAVE HER MONEY.

Ann, everyone that wants healthcare should pay for it themselves. I don't know many jobs that doesn't offer healthcare, but I do know people that don't want to pay for it out of their pays. If anyone can afford a Iphone then they can afford to pay for their own healthcare. I love seeing people in grocery stores using an access card but they have the most expensive I phone and can only imagine what their cell phone bill is. We do have health care in the United States, if you work doesn't offer it you can call HighMark, UPMC, United Health Care and purchase a plan for you and your family. If you can't afford it get a second job to pay for it.

Wouldn't just benefit all of us if everyone had a house even if you cant afford it. Oh wait the government already did that we see how that ended up.

Wouldn't benefit all of us if everyone had a car even if they cant put gas in it or afford insurance. Oh wait that is pretty silly too.

Wouldn't it benefit all of us if PEOPLE WOULD HAVE SOME PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. PEOPLE NEED TO QUIT SITTING AROUND WITH THEIR HANDS OUT! If you hid their welfare checks under their work shoes they would starve to death rather then find a job. Obama wants you depending on the government because once you're dependent they control you!!! Bye bye freedoms! Wake up people! Pull your heads outta your butt and realize what os happening to this country. We didn't become the GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH within 200 YEARS by being given handouts and waiting for the government to provide us with anything. Don't see anyone jumping on a log to float to Cuba! No one os crossing the Rio to work in Mexico, millions of our ancestors spent every dime to get here to male it on their OWN! Not cause the gov was giving stuff away!

Ann instead of going to the emergency room why don't you go to a MedPlus, twice as cheap as the emergency room. Wait when you go to the emergency room you can get welfare to pay for your bill, if you go to MedPlus, you can make payment arrangements with them, but you would rather other people pay for your healthcare. I don't know of many companies that doesn't offer healthcare even if you have to pay for it but people don't want to pay out of their pockets for it. They want other to pay it for them.

I agree with you on the Health Care Reform Act, it is a necessary thing to do. I also agree with you on the congressional republicans...33 times they voted to repeal...that is crazy! Maybe that is why our founding fathers established that congress' term is only for two years, as opposed to the Senate, serving six years.

@bob haller – “the law is far from perfect but a big improvement.” What does this statement even mean?

Additionally, Congressional approval ratings have been falling steadily since 2006. If you look deeper – or actually at all – into the numbers, you will find that dissatisfaction in the job Congress is doing is not a Republican or Democrat issue exclusively. Citizens are fed up with the institution as a whole.

What else are they going to vote on, we got a do nothing president that only wants obamacare and to make illegals citizens. obamacare got to go along with obama

Its not reform lets be clear on that bs point!

Why os that you can sue a Dr who delivered your child 18 years ago because he one ear that is a little smaller then the other? Yes obgyn drs can be sued anytime before the child turns 18.for some of the most obscure reasons even if the child was born perfectly healthy. Yes I have been told this by more then one obgyn Dr, its why there aren't many going into the practice.

This is where reform needs to happen.

Millions of people out there choose not to have insurance. I did it for 12 years. You can purchase catastrophic insurance on the cheap. Single person insurance can be as low as 75 a month if you actually spent 2 seconds shopping around. I did and had ot for a few years.

It is a shame that there is so much mis-information about the Affordable Care Act or Health Care Reform Act or Obama-Care or Obamney Care....just the fact that it has so many names sort of proves the point doesn't it? People in Texas are already getting refund checks from their Insurance Providers due b/c the Provider didn't spend 80% of premiums on their clients and put too much into Administrative Costs and Salaries. Missouri, Illinois customers getting rebates under health care law
Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/rebates-are-one-part-of- health-care-law-that-are/article_38d7c66e-7814-5561-87ff-f0dddaaa06a3.html#ixzz20l5Znn9a

Yes the government os saying you make too much money. They are controlling how much CEOs and employees make. Hmmmm thought we lived in American not Cuba or China.

Lobe hearing people complain that people make too much money. Funny that I have never seen a protest at an NBA game protesting about players making millions a year for playing a game that kids play. Never seen them save anyones life? Wonder how many years of schooling and marathon like shifts they had to work. Oh that's right they can bounce a ball he should get millions for that.

@bob haller – We have the ability to limit the number of terms all elected officials serve – they’re called elections.

Let’s put aside for a moment that it is not the role of government to force people into government programs. Who will pay for your fantastical ideas?

bob haller YOU ARE A MORON do you even know what a pre existing condition is????? "the republicans elminate obamacare, means that newborns will again not be covered for life threatening problems because they are pre existing..." There is ACT 81 IN PENNSYLVANIA DEFINITION IS Act 81—The act of August 1, 1975 (P. L. 157, No. 81) (40 P. S. § § 753.1—753.4).

Coverage for newborn children—The same coverage provided under the terms of the form for dependent children for sickness, disease or injury. If the form does not provide coverage for dependent children, the coverage shall be the same as that provided the insured or subscriber. For purposes of compliance with Act 81, injury or sickness shall include medically diagnosed congenital defects, birth abnormalities, prematurity and routine nursery care. If the form provides coverage for routine well baby care, the same coverage shall be provided for newborn children. The coverage shall be provided regardless of whether the form provides for obstetrical coverage.

Every state has a law like this. PLEASE FOR OUR SAKE DO NOT BREED

Insured or subscriber—A person, male or female, covered under the terms of a form to which Act 81 is applicable, regardless of the covered person’s marital or dependency status or eligibility for maternity benefits.

Routine nursery care—Hospital or other qualified health care institution, room, board or miscellaneous institutional care or care rendered by a licensed medical practitioner, performing within the scope of his license, associated with hospital confinement.

Routine well-baby care—Expense for which coverage is available under a form to a covered person for preventive health care, rendered either on an inpatient or outpatient basis, not associated with treatment of an ill or injured person, such as, but not limited to, immunizations, medical examinations or tests not necessary for the treatment of covered injuries, illnesses, birth defects, deformities or diseases, and hospital room, board or miscellaneous institutional expenses.

The health care law is predicted to reduce the deficit over the long term but how? By shifting the financial responsiblity to the States. And where are the states going to get the money. And as far as any predictions go, 2 yrs ago we were told it would cost .9 trillion. Now were are told it will cost 2.6 trillion. So much for the governments ability to accurately make any predictions.

Did you get this number from obamaland, there has only been 322,000 jobs created under obama presidency so where are you pulling these numbers from???? how many jobs have been lost because of obmaacare and employers taking employees under 50 so they don't have to buy obamacare.

Quit drinking the koolaide

cc, you stop drinking the cool aid. We get are facts from the CBO, the place where everyone both democrats and republicans get bills scored. They said the law would reduce the deficit. Get over it! And sue, please refer to my comment above to see the law does not cost double.

Jacob and mmp,

Do you REALLY believe CBO estimates? Or do you just want to believe them.

Let me ask it to you this way:
There is currently a $26 Trillion and rising federal debt.
Do you think that if you added up CBO estimates of all past spending bills, that it would add up to $16 Trillion??

I dont think so.

That tells you how reliable CBO estimates are.

So stop spouting CBO, which is a half-baked estimate based on bogus assumptions.

If you want a better estimate of the cost-effectiveness and long term viability of this monstrosity, then look at social security and medicare, which are both BROKE.

steve, medicare and social security are not broke . . .yet. Actually, the FICA taxes produce about 100-200 billion dollars more than what ss and medicare cost. Don't, get me wrong, we won't have a surplus for long. In a few more years it will bankrupt itself, just not now. The reason that it's bankrupt now is that when the FICA taxes produce a surplus, the money is to go into a fund to support ss and medicare. This has not been the case as the surplus money and the fund have been borrowed from to try and pay down the deficit. It worked for about 2 years, then the deficit got massive. Second, if we don't believe the CBO, we can't trust anyone. The republicans have produced laws that they argue will reduce the deficit. There source? The CBO. There job is to make predictions which of course are never 100% accurate, but they're the closest thing we got. If we through out there numbers, then I could argue that the President's budget will actually reduce the deficit. The CBO said his budget would increase it, but since it's the CBO, they're lying.

bob quit watching obama's commercials, that is where your getting this false information at. I have seen no news shows on this but it splattered in all the lies that obama is spreading

@JS – You know what else would be great, free water. I can guarantee that 100% of people will die without water. Because of this, it should be the role of federal government to take over all state, city and municipal water services and provide those services free of charge. How will be do this you ask? We’ll tax the rich and the greedy corporations, that’s how.

While we’re at it, you know what else? That’s right, 100% of people will die without food to eat. The federal government should definitely take control of all supermarkets and restaurants and provide food free of charge. Again, let’s stick it to those greedy “1%ers” to pay for this.

What else is there? I almost missed it! Nearly 100% of all people will die without proper shelter. The federal government should take possession of all dwellings and provide those free of cost to dwellers. We should also require the “1%ers” to pay for this as well. After all, those greedy citizens have been sticking it to the 99% for to long.

Outraged,

Great analogies. Water, food, and shelter are more important than health care. Without water, food, and shelter, health care doesnt matter.

Why don't we have universal water, food, and shelter? It's no for lack of trying on the part of liberal/socialists. They have food stamps and the Community Reinvestment Act. Give them time and they will.

JS then you pay for all the people to have health care that can't afford it and I'll keep my money that I earned. I don't thing I should be taxed for the people that don't want to buy insurance, but can own iphones, brand new cars every couple of years, take lavish vacations but they can't buy health care. You want health care then get a second job and buy it yourself.

I guess I should have known better. Outraged - stop with your outrage long enough to think about what I wrote. I simply stated that we're all going to get sick and die, or have an accident and die. I can't believe you're actually arguing with me about that. I didn't say health care should be free because you'll die without it. Health care will never be free, we'll pay for it in some way, shape or form. All I want is for it to be the most efficient system we can have. Not like now when insurers pay big money to advertise and sponsor sporting events while raising our rates. Spend the freaking money on health care - Sheesh.

I simply tried to draw an analogy between health insurance and car insurance, sorry if it wasn't easy enough to understand. We're all going to die, we're not all going to get into a car accident. Insurers who insure something that is sure to fail (our bodies) have to manipulate the system to make their profits. They do a very good job of it, to the detriment of us all.

I know, change is scary, change is bad. My health insurance premiums rose between 15 and 20% a year in the 3 years before ACA. If I had lost my job, I would have had to go on the market and find my own insurance, which I couldn't have gotten because I have a pre existing condition. This is the system you're all crying for?

@JS – You’re missing the point, or simply ignoring it. Demanding taxpayer-funded food, water and shelter is EXACTLY the same as demanding universal healthcare. You want taxpayers to shoulder the burden of paying for something you believe is a necessity. You would have the government raid the wallets of your neighbors for your financial gain. It baffles me why you can’t see this is wrong.

Sorry outraged, I just thought we were talking about health care here. Our society doesn't neccessarily have to guarantee food, health care, water, any of it. We can simply decide to let those who can't afford those things die. Very simple, which seem to be the only type of solutions available to most on here. Maybe once we start picking up bodies in the streets, everyone will get their act together, pull themselves up by their bootstraps and pay for their own damn health care. Let's try it, outraged, if it means I don't have to have this argument anymore with you reactionaries, let's just freakin do it. You run a candidate that wants to deny any of this stuff to those with no money or no means to get money - I will vote for him. Let's rid the country of all the leeches, the infirm, the mentally and physically disabled once and for all. We can all spend our hard earned money on just what we choose. If some of us want to help those doing without, so be it. If some just want to buy a bigger boat, that's OK too, no one is forced to help anyone else, cause it's your money, dammit. While we're at it, let's disband the military, which takes far more of our hard earned money than any other program, and those with the means to defend themselves can do so, those without can remain defenseless. This is getting fun, seriously, I'm ready to do it.

@JS – It’s amazing how many people miss the point. No, wait, amazing is not the right word. Sad is the word I should use.

No one here wants to let people die the streets, et al. Liberals always go there when someone disagrees with them. You would have everyone believe there is a secret cabal of people who disagree with you that purposely withhold paying the amount of taxes you believe is fair for the sole purpose of increasing profits and watching people die. How very droll of you.

The true difference – if you had chosen to pay attention – is you believe government is the mechanism for creating society in your image. I believe we should leave that up to the people.

Why is this difference important?

You would use government power to force the rest of us to live by your vision. Whereas I would give you a choice on whether to participate.

Again, it is utterly amazing your fail to see your selfishness.

So, how's that system of private insurance been working for us. We have the highest cost system in the world with some of the worst results.

You didn't seem able to answer my original point about the folly of private health insurance, you know, insuring something that will fail 100% of the time. You haven't put forward any ideas about the kind of system you want except for the fact that you don't want the government. That seems to mean that you want the private insurers to run the system, the same system that has given us ever increasing costs, ever increasing numbers of uninsured, ever increasing numbers of people using the emergency room as primary care - and guess what - we pay for all of it anyways.

Your fear of government stands in the way of actual thought about what a sane way of insuring people's health would look like. Forgive me for taking what many are saying in this thread to the extreme, but you people give me no choice - you have no vision of what health insurance should look like except the one that currently doesn't work.

Hilarious that you call me selfish. I have health insurance, don't need the ACA, yet I support it because it adds some semblance of sanity to a system that leaves some without care. Forgive me for proposing a system that most on here seem to be hankering for - those that can afford it get it, those who can't don't. That should be so simple even right-wingers can understand it. If that's not the case, please have an alternative.

JS, JS, JS...

You are so confused.

Insurance premiums continue to rise, because the cost of health care continues to rise.

The cost of health care continues to rise because it is highly subsidized.

Remember, subsidies artificially inflate demand, and price. Econ 101. It is irrefutable.

That is why home prices skyrocketed after government programs to "make homes more affordable"

That is why tuition continues to skyrocket after government programs to "make education more affordable".

Government. Subsidies. Do. Not. Work.

And yet you want a whole lot more of them.

And you keep challenging others to provide their solutions.

Well, if you want to stop the significant rise in healthcare costs, then one method is to have users (patients) pay directly, to put downward pressure on prices, and maybe get some patients to alter their lifestyles.

If someone else is paying the bill, most wont even examine the bill for accuracy. Most wont question whether the procedure is necessary.

But if a person with pre-diabetes knows that type II diabetes will cost him $5,000 a year for insulin, the person might modify his diet and exercise to save $5,000. If someone else pays the $5,000, he can continue eating ice cream and watching TV.

I suggest that users pay the first $5,000-$10,000 out of pocket, and have catastrophic coverage for serious illnesses. Except for the truly infirm or indigent.

Js
I think the govt should be running all the cemetaries. Everyone is going to die some time why should I have to pay to be buried.

Everyone gets hungry so why not just have government run restaurants. I mean I might die if I don't eat. That should be a right, steaks and lobster at least once a week.

I might get lonely so I need a phone. The govt should give me one.

Hell I need a vacation all this sitting around with my hand out is getting tiring. I think the govt should pay for my vacation, twice a year.

Where does it end? Oh yeah it ends like socialism always ends when you run out of someone else's money! Remember socialism always fails ALWAYS! It is human nature to strive for bettering yourself and that always goes hand in hand with the freedom to achieve.

@JS – Again, like explaining biscuit recipes to Slingblade. But I will try again.

You’re not selfish because you want others to have insurance. Your selfish because you would use the government to force the rest of us to live our lives according to your vision of society.

quit drinking the kool-aide

Cc
they have set up the factory and producing as much as possible and calling it job creation.......mmmmm koolaid yummy!

James I am truly sorry you lost your wife to MS and yes diseases do eat all of your savings even if you do have the best of healthcare. obamacare is going to do the same to people, doctors are going to stop taking healthcare medicare, medicaid and you'll pay the bill and then submit the bill to your insurance and they will send you peanuts back.

First off, the law is not Universal Health Care. It is called the "Affordable Care Act". I find it difficult to call it that since I don't fine the ramifications of this law "affordable". So, I call it the ACA or Obamacare.

Don’t get discouraged Sue T. It’s like trying to explain biscuit recipes to Slingblade.

obama is calling it obamacare in his commercials and in his speeches. You are not denied health care if you have a pre-existing condition, you can get insurance but your charged double than what a healthy person is charged. People cry they can't afford healthcare but can have expensive cars, cell phones, and other things they probably don't really need but have to have. You want healthcare, get a second job to pay for the other things you want in life.

I know you think it would be great to give everybody free health care, I do too, but can you possibly try to understand the negative consequences of "universal", "single payer", "government run" health care?

You would rather suspend logic and believe that the somehow, the federal government can take money from "rich people" and provide free health care to everybody, efficiently and effectively.

You conveniently ignore the massive failures of social security and medicare.

"Universal" coverage only guarantees that everybody has the same access to the same impaired quality of health care - significantly impairing the rate of innovation and development of new drugs, procedures, and treatments.

Imagine going to the DMV to get your liver resected.

But that is what you desire, government run healthcare. And you want future generations to pay for it, while you significantly impair the quality of health care that will be available to them.

I am proud to be a "selfish bigoted tightass" for
1. refusing to suspend using economic logic and regusing to believe that the federal government can somehow design and deliver health care to 320 million people,
2. ingoring the massive failures of social security and medicare

"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

I see all fast food restaurants hiring all the time and they offer healthcare so go get a second job. I care about others, I donate to charities of my choosing, i am involved in Poker Runs to raise money for people, toys for tots, I donate 2 days a month for Habitat for Humanity, I also give money to the Red Cross, United Way and the other charities that I believe in. Why should our government tell me that I have to pay more in taxes to pay for health care for others????? It is the money that I earn and I shouldn't be told that I have to pay for your healthcare.

Sorry Bob, I'm not getting out of the way. I am not going to stand around while you Socialists take my hard earned money out of my pocketbook and give it to the freeloaders. I'm sick of it and it is going to change come November.

Isabella can't agree with you more, so tired of these freeloaders thinking they should have everything handed to them on a silver platter, go get a second job to pay for your healthcare if you want it so bad.

Bob, if we give them "the ability (money) to buy it", isn't it free?

You are so confused.

No, they don't want free healthcare, they are just looking to buy it with other people's money.

bob then go get healthcare, all insurance companies offer it to people that work for companies that doesn't offer it. When you lose your job, you are offered COBRA if you had a plan at your place of employment. I see signs all over the road for cheap inexpensive healthcare, have you ever called one of them. Quit depending on other peoples money to purchase your insurance for you. The Federal Government needs to stop giving welfare out to everyone other than Senior Citizens and People that are truly disabled. The Federal Government needs to toss all the ones that are getting SSI and SSDI, that can't work but can go play golf every weekend. Like one of my neighbors that bragged about how easy it was to get SSI for a back injury but yet participates in marathons, golfs every week and is out running 5 miles a day but yest can't work because of a back injury. CAN YOU SAY FRAUD

I don't know how seniors will make it in 2014 when a lot of them only get 800 a month and have to pay for food, rent, utilities. Where do they want you to live and how are you suppose to live.

reps just vote as those who pay for the relection order them too.

congress works only for the weathy, no longer

That's right genius, I didn't read it because I'm not an elected official. It is a disgrace that our government passes legislation without knowing what is in it. And yes, I do believe God would be on my side of the argument. It's not the governments responsiblity to take from the taxpayers on behalf of God and distribute it how they see fit.
I agree he does love the lepers and blind man, but I didn't realize Jesus was an advocate of abortion.

This document explains where the ACA stands on abortion: http://dpc.senate.gov/healthreformbill/healthbill18.pdf. Nothing has changed, no federal funds will be used for abortions. Having said that, let me also say that abortion is legal and it is every woman's right to have access to safe, private medical care, even if it includes abortion.

Hello truth, please meet bob balmer.

bob balmer, this is my old buddy truth.

I’m glad you two finally got met.

Bob,

It's not the fact that we have to pay for it that bothers me.

It is the fact that this huge transfer of wealth will not increase the availability or quality of health care. It will in fact have exactly the opposite effect.

People like you believe that those that oppose government run health care are just mean selfish people. But that is because you do not have the capacity to understand that government run healthcare will not increase the availability or quality of health care.

Government run healthcare is not good for anyone. It is a lose-lose proposition. It is only good if you are one of 16,000 new IRS agents or employed by one of the 300 new government agencies created under Obamacare.

I want the best healthcare for all, especially my kids and your kids. This huge transfer of wealth and government takeover of healthcare will do nothing to enhance, and will in fact impair, the availability and quality of health care for our children.

I wish you could comprehend that your good intentions will have severe negative consequences.

"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

Bob, the Act has some good provisions in it. The doesn't mean the entire Act is good. I've read most of the Act, and the problems with it far outweigh the advantages. A simple insurance reform bill could have provided the same, as well as mandated coverage for pre-existing conditions, and something important this Act does not do, Tort Reform.

@bob balmer – I’m not sure where the disconnect lies, but it’s actually very simple.

When a family of four pays less than 10% of the cost of their insurance premium and taxpayers pay the remaining amount, that is a redistribution of wealth.

Totally agree Outraged Citizen and they listen to obama about spreading the wealth, to bad they don't' go out and make their own.

bob balmer, what plane?

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much it is whether we provide enough for those who have little."
~Franklin D. Roosevelt (longest serving US President)

Charles,

Really? FDR??

FDR was the father of BIG government.

Elected in 1932 on a buoyant tide of promises to balance the increasingly uncontrollable national budget and reduce the catastrophic unemployment rate, the charismatic thirty-second president not only neglected to pursue those goals, he made dramatic changes to federal programming that directly contradicted his campaign promises. Price fixing, court packing, regressive taxes, and patronism were all hidden inside the alphabet soup of his popular New Deal, putting a financial strain on the already suffering lower classes and discouraging the upper classes from taking business risks that potentially could have jostled national cash flow from dormancy. Many government programs that are widely used today have their seeds in the New Deal. Farm subsidies, minimum wage, and welfare, among others, all STIFLE economic growth -- encouraging DECREASED productivity and EXACERBATING unemployment.

Roosevelt's imperious approach to the presidency changed American politics forever, and as he manipulated public opinion, American citizens became unwitting accomplices to the stilted economic growth of the 1930s. More than sixty years after FDR died in office, we still struggle with the damaging repercussions of his legacy.

Sounds a lot like Obama.

“There seems to be no question that [Mussolini] is really interested in what we are doing and I am much interested and deeply impressed by what he has accomplished and by his evidenced honest purpose of restoring Italy.”
~Franklin D. Roosevelt (longest serving US President)

“I just have a hunch that Stalin is not that kind of man. Harry [Hopkins] says he's not and that he doesn't want anything except security for his own country, and I think that if I give him everything I possibly can and ask nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won't try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of democracy and peace.”
~Franklin D. Roosevelt (longest serving US President)

I could go on, but I assume you get the point.

This doesn’t include the fact that FDR decided to intern over 120,000 Japanese Americans and over 10,000 German Americans during WWII. Reparations to Japanese Americans cost our nation over $1.6 billion. Yay FDR!

@steve, yes, FDR! You outlined exactly why he was elected 4 TIMES, he was in fact a people's President, and saved untold number of lives (and their descendants, which may even include you) with his progressive programs. He was after all leading the greatest generation out of economic ruin, should we aspire to anything less? Based on your comments, I'd say you do.

FDR’s economic policies (New Deal) did not jump start our nation’s economy. How did paying farmers to destroy crops and livestock help those in breadlines? Unemployment was near 25% when FDR took office and hovered over 15% until after 1940.

It was not until the mobilization for WWII that GDP returned to pre-Depression levels. That doesn’t take into account the legacy of programs and departments we’re saddled with paying for today.

What you can do id thank WWII for our economic recovery.

@outraged You need to compare apples to apples. The unemployment rate in those days was the actual rate: 25% percent of the population that was able to work was unemployed. Today's rate is actually somewhere between 22% and 24% because the rate bandied about today (8.2%) is only the percentage of people able to work who are collecting unemployment benefits. It does NOT include those whose benefits have expired, but are still out of work. Add to it the under-employment and you can begin to see the 800 pound gorilla, which you will summarily ignore, belittle, or attack because it doesn't suit your point of view.

@Charles – Please remind me where I was comparing unemployment rates from FDR’s administration to Obama’s administration. You can’t and that wasn’t the point. If you had actually paid attention to my post you might have realized I was commenting on the fact that you decided to quote FDR to contradict TJ. Additionally, I was pointing out the fact that FDR had his own set of issues/failures and was not the savior of the American economy as some have positioned.

If you want to talk about current unemployment, we can talk about the U-3 (8.2%), U-6 (14.6%) or LFP (10.4%). You’d really have to expand the scope to unreliable numbers to reach 22% to 24%. Of course you know some of these numbers; particularly the U-3 and LFP are “artificially” lower than they would be due to people just giving up their search for employment or the rising number of people going on SS disability (85,000 last month, 5,000 more than the number of people who found a job). You’re right; unemployment might very well be the biggest problem we face today.

That said, unemployment has nothing to do with the thread and I must blame myself for introducing the topic.

The rest of the world it was simply the depression only in the USA wasit the GREAT depression. That was due to the policies of FDR, it wasn't WWII that brought us put of the great depression but the ending of the failed liberal policies of FDR.

Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.

I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.

The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government.

He who knows best knows how little he knows

All by Thomas Jefferson

@JDB – Interesting use of about 180 words to simply ask, “Should citizens with insurance utilize healthcare services given that some citizens do not have insurance?”

The simple answer is yes. A citizen is always free to utilize the goods and services the citizen has purchased.

bob couldn't find the plane you were talking about.

@JDB – Just to settle the matter, we’re not friends. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure you’re an agreeable chap.

I find it disingenuous that someone who eats while others go hungry, drinks while others thirst, has shelter while others shiver and has electricity while others live in darkness would presume to lecture a fellow citizen that it is disturbing that they enjoy the fruits of their labor.

You asked me not to speak down to you. To earn that respect, perhaps you should have started your thread from some place other than the pulpit.

What!! Personal responsibility wohaa you must be one of those yahoos!!! Careful Steve telling the truth causes liberals heads to explode because you burst the bubble of the fantasy world they live in.

Funny the poor keep voting for liberals and some how nothing ever changes. Detroit for example, compared to lets see Wisconsin. They cut back on all the excesses in Wisconsin trimmed some fat with the teachers and could afford to hire more teachersand are back in the black in the financial books. Hmmm Detroit long list of great dems running that town and where have their policies taken them. Wake up people its real simple socialism is great til THEY EVENTUALLY RUN OUT OF SOMEONE ELSES MONEY. AND THEY ALWAYS RUN OUT OF MONEY!!!

Safe travels Brother James.

Only 13 ahead of you just see what the er is like now that its free for everyone!!! Yipeee!!!!! 6Months and I can get an xray for my tumid bulging out or my right arm, if I'm not dead before that....oh free is great. Til the people paying run out of money.

Sick of the uninformed. ER is not free, never has been, never will be. If you go and get treated and can't pay (and the ER is the most expensive way to get care), you will be hounded by bill collectors and maybe declare bankruptcy. Who then pays for that - everyone else. That is the factual state of the system before Obama, the system that you love so much.

What exactly do you propose, b, in place of the ACA. What do you think should be done for people who come to a hospital with no money and no insurance. Be honest, because I hear a lot of people whining about not paying for other's health care, but then say, of course we're not going to let someone die because they can't pay. Which is it, we pay for them, or they don't get health care. You can't have it both ways. If the government provides the insurance, the money's going to go for the actual care, with a lot less overhead than private insurers, already been proven. If you are interested in a portion of your monthly insurance payments going for free medical care for PGA golfers (Highmark has a contract to set up tents at all PGA events for the next 4 years), then the private system is perfect for you. Me - I'm sick of the status quo and think we need to look at what the rest of the world does to pay for care.

So what's your plan, b, I'll be waiting.

J's how about tort reform. How about allowing the 1200 insurance companies compete access state lines. California has 6 insurance e companies to choose from and only six out of 1200!! How is that considered competition? Competing companies makes cost come down and makes the companies work a little harder for your dollar. How about not fording doctors to HAVE TO PERFORM DEFENSIVE MEDICINE since they have to order extra test to cover their ass so some lawyer doesn't sue him. All those extra test drive up cost of healthcare. How about a maximum on what you can sue for. You said there is no wasn't in govt medicine what planet are you living on? When has the govt ever done anything efficiently? They don't have to meet a bottom line so there for it becomes a free for all spending party. Have you seen section 8 housing? Yeah not think of that as your govt run hospital. How much waste os there in Medicaid alone....regardless of showing up for an appointment t or not Medicaid gets charged the free loafer doesn't care its not their money. Instead of penalizing people who don't get insurance lets reward those that live healthy. There are multiple bills in the house now that address many issues that our healthcare system has and you can read them in about 20mins cause their about 25 pages not 2500! So in the aca billthere os a tax on tanning salons how os that healthcare? How about an.extra tax on fatty foods or salty smacks? I don't want them u should be free to chose what u eat.

Here take 5 minutes and read about Texas' tort reform.

http://www.physicianspractice.com/blog/content/article/1462168/1971951

Now imagine that on a national level. And that is just the beginning of what could be done.

Amazing and I wouldn't go anywhere else in the world for my healthcare! I would gladly pay my way to stay right here with the greatest healthcare system in the world. And that's why people come here from around the world for our healthcare.

I worked in a downtown pgh hotel that would have one of the Saudi prince that would come here for treatments. He paid to have an entire floor redecorated and every room on that floor was for him and his people. He paid for his hospital bills to have the floor returned back once he left. He would be here for a few weeks each year. Funny cause if you had that much money and we have such a horrible system then why would he come here? Oh yeah we doing have a horrible system, we have lots of people who want someone else to pay for EVERYTHING AND NOT DO ANYTHING THEMSELVES!!!

Everyone has a story about who goes where for healthcare and why. Plenty of people going to Canada for their prescriptions because our system allows drug companies to charge as much as they want.

I have no question that our health care system is a great place for rich Saudi princes and I'm sure you think that someday you're going to be as rich as one, but for the rest of us, it just doesn't work. If you have billions, you can get whatever you want in this world, that's undisputed. If you bother to look at the facts of where our country rates in costs and outcomes for, you know, the rest of the 99% of the people who live here, you might come to a different conclusion.

@JS – I had a fantastic experience with healthcare last year. That must mean I’m a Saudi prince. Praise Allah! Where are my many wives, boats and houses?

Ok, let’s get cereal. No one is disputing the fact there are issues with healthcare in this country.

Some believe Obamacare will “fix” the problem. They will say healthcare is too important to leave to chance and it is the responsibility of government to ensure all citizens have reasonable access.

There are others who believe our nation was not founded on the premise that government should become our mommy, looking over our shoulders ready to give us all a hug when we’re sad or kissing our knees when we get a boo-boo. I obviously belong to this group.

The fact is Obamacare seeks to treat the symptoms and not the illness. It is an attempt to manipulate demand to impact costs, rather than why getting at the root of why healthcare is so expensive. It does nothing to address costly regulations, burdensome administrivia or skyrocketing malpractice premiums for doctors or hospitals. If you want to get serious about lowering costs, tort reform and simplifying the system must be at the foundation of any solution.

@ML – Cereal - it was an Al Gore joke. It’s from a South Park episode.

"mmp
2:33 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012

Here's the GOP plan, if you can't win the election fair & square...you lie in all of your ads and if you can't win that way, you try to steal by out spending with "dark money" and if you can't win that way, you prevent people from voting. The GOP knows that they have an "inferior" candidate so they are using every trick in the book. Grover Norquist even said that they just need someone (Romney or whomever) to just sign the bills. Take a guess to what kind of bills that they will be when you know that Romney has surrounded himself with Bush & Cheney advisors...into the ditch..again!.."

Where exactly are the facts that can be checked in this diatribe?

Let he who is without sin . . . .

@mmp – You know it was never about the links. . . . As to their content, it’s a game both sides play.

@Marion – My parents raised three kids AND saved enough money to retire comfortably.

How did they pull off this miraculous feat? They got good educations, made wise investments and lived within their means. It really is that simple.

My parents raised 6 kids with out credit cards, owned a house and sent us all to college without the help of the government and paid for their own medical insurance on top of that. Not all Senior citizens are sick and take drugs every day for illnesses.

jon no one ever stopped you from buying medical insurance, even with pre-existing conditions you were always able to purchase insurance. For the first year, the insurance wouldn't pay on the pre-existing condition, but after that time, they do.
The reason that people don't buy health insurance was because they had to pay for it out of their own pockets and since they bought homes that they couldn't afford, ran their credit cards up that they couldn't afford, bought cars that they couldn't afford. Now they are losing their home they want the government to take care of this also. People expect to much from the government because they made the bad choices, not the government.

I never had a job that paid for my health care but always had it because I paid for it out of my money that I earned from my paycheck.

Angry much? What gives you the idea that "rich people sit back and not pay?"

Sterotype much? Vacation home, and fourth car? Or, making investments so that businesses have capital to start, expand, or remain stable, ... businesses that employee you and your husband. Who signs the paychecks? Those making $20,000/yr? Who risks capital for startups and expansions? Who has the visions for entrepreneurship and expansions? None of these involve a vacation home or fourth car.

For a business owner, your perspective on how business works is more than skewed. It is no surprise about working two jobs, seven days per week with ideas like this, college educated or not.

@Renee – I like you. I thought I was outraged, but tip of the hat to you.

It’s very simple. Other people’s money does not belong to you, no matter how much you would like for that to be the case. No other citizen is obliged to pick up the tab for you and your family. You can rant and rave against the “evil 1%ers” that owe you because they the audacity to be successful, but it does not change that fact.

Regarding Medicare, I pay into the system and assuming it’s even there when I retire you can sure bet I’ll seek to recoup that “investment.” I’ll also cash any SS check as well. I figure that’s the least I can do to make up for the fact I’m currently financing roughly 48% of the general public.

Stop engaging in class warfare and expecting others to pay your bills. That’s the Democrat way. Put on your big girl pants and take ownership of your life.

Sorry Renee I own my own business and pay 3/4 for my employees and families health insurance. I don't need to be paying more money out for others for free obamacare. I also have bills, mortgage, utilities, food and a cell phone bill. I don't over spend on charges, didn't buy a home I couldn't afford and learned to invest money. I am not some bank that going to pay for your healthcare.

"... angry ...like everybody else in this country." Well, not so much. The polls show that nearly 50% of the US citizens are supporting Pres Obama for a second term. This means they are NOT angry, certainly not angry enough to want to make a change. So, no, not everybody is angry -- lots of people obviously are satisfied with the path of our leadership, and want it to continue and grow stronger.

With regard to "rich buying vacation homes, and fourth cars," you need to do more research. One place to start would be today's WSJ that discusses the values of expensive homes, ones that I believe you would consider the rich to own. Nobody has lost more wealth in this country than those in the upper tier of wealth. Their losses are staggering since 2008 compared to those of the middle class, in terms of percentage (certainly by absolute dollars, but by percentage). No medicine needed for those folks you despise. Their financial statements provide more medicine than any post on a BBS can provide.

part 2

You speak of Bush era tax cuts being unsuccessful. What was the value of the financial markets in 2004-2007? What was the unemployment rates during this time. People would love to return to these days of which you despise. I think your memory is very short.

I see you ignored the questions regarding those who are able to sign paychecks and make investments into the financial markets.

Middle class folks are very important in job creation. However, it is not usually these folks who fund the environment for new jobs. No funding, ...nothing happens. Capital markets are the stuff of which business gets the fuel.

People complain about tax breaks. You, in the middle class enjoy enormous tax breaks as well. I hear constant complaining about some folks parking their money in overseas accounts, or using tax credits. While some call these tax breaks, they are nothing more than tax avoidance procedures, all perfectly legal and above board.

You are wrong about my ownership of a business. I've been involved with entrepreneurship for over 40 years, and owned multiple businesses. There is nothing like being on the front line, with capital at risk, making decisions on direction and vision, and being successful (and failing).

Roger you are so correct in everything you say. Maybe Renee needs to go back to school and take more economy classes.

Renee how did your school getting state cuts hurt your small buisness?

So how is ACA better and more free market the the current system which you didn't have be forced into being apart of. ACA forces people into being apart of it that doesn't sound like free market to me. Again you keep jumbling your two sides. A better free market would be allowing the 1200 current insurance companies to compete across state lines. Example California only has 6 companies competing how much would prices go down if they had another 1194 companies to compete against? Why can you be auto insurance that way but not health insurance. This law was not about reform it was about control of your health. Care will be rationed, you cant add millions of people paying the equivalent of chicken nuggets and expect to get filet mignon in return. A chef wouldn't give it to you and neither will a doctor

It is the democrats that are drinking the kool-aid that obama is trying to pass off as lemonade

Cc
Renee must be getting some psychodelic shrooms in her koolaid from obamas lemonade stand.

Renee
you don't go on Medicaid when you retire that would be Medicare. The left is the ones pushing for class warfare at every turn. I am sure when you started your buisness you weren't just trying become middle class were you...you wanted to make profits and buy a nice house and enjoy life. Notice I didn't say huge house. Who do you think builds all those houses that wealthy people live in? How many poor people hire plumrrs electricians landscapers maintance guys nannies rooters cement finishers hvac guys eat at restaurants with servers bartenders managers cooks dishwashers maintance people go on vacations and spend money at restaurants hotels bars car rentals souvenir stores? Renee you and the rest of your pettiest need to stop with the class warfare and railing against people that are successful since their success helps fuel much of the economy. Taxing rich people takes away excess money that they can could be spending at your small buisness and other buisness that employ people.

b smilth- she boast a successful business but crying about healthcare. People that own successful business don't want obamacare and to be paying more out in taxes. I just went to a meeting for small business owners and not one of them support obamacare and having to pay more on welfarecare aka obamacare. I'm so tired of hearing we don't pay enough in taxes, and would love to see ding dong Renee's income tax return last year and how much she fudged off her taxes.

Cc
In renee's world Detroit is successful and Wisconsin is drowning. When she didn't have enough money to pay for her mortgage she went out and bought a summer house and a new car. Instead of cutting back on spending and saving money where she could. At least that is the way she believes that the govt should be run. When she didn't have customers coming into her buisness she would scream at and demonize those that were her customers saying they weren't buying enough and they she needed to raise prices so those that couldn't afford to shop there could get stuff for free while those that did shop there had to pay for the free stuff for others. Well at least that's the way her logic works on here.

It doesn't make sense in buisness so how does it make sense in govt?

b smith agree with you there, I wouldn't want to deal with Renee business. She needs to go back to school and take some business and economic classes. Then again this is obama logic and makes no sense.

Renee when I retire, I will most certainly be there to collect Social Security and Medicare, after all I do pay into it. I also get a paycheck from my company and live on what i'm paid and am able to save and invest. I also pay taxes on the business and taxes on what I make. I give my employees profit sharing and take the same amount as them and leave the rest of the money invested in the business. My business pays all bills every month, we don't use credit cards unless were traveling and those bills are paid off every month. I haven't had to lay off one person since I owned my business , and yesterday I put a ad on Career Builders to hire 3 more employees, something that I DID on my own and not like what obama said ""If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen." I'm the one that made my business and got the work so that I can hire employees.
http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-small-business-government-infrastructure-taxes-romney-2012-7
You need to get off the tea cup ride in obamaland and quit drinking the kool-aide that he is trying to pass off as lemonade.

Hi Renee,
You are trying to make intelligent logical arguments with CC, but you'll find your are trying to make intelligent arguments with someone far less intelligent and both unable and unwilling to listen to any position other than their own. Although I can appreciate your point of view, and understand your argument, and even see where you are coming from, you will get no where with 4 individuals on this thread as they are either paid bloggers (which equates their value as human beings to something less than navel lint) or rabid single-minded, one-dimensional human beings, and even that is giving them more credit than they deserve.

Charles your an idiot like I said before, there paid bloggers, sorry but I don't get paid to blog.
Your the one that has no brains and wants to spend everyone else's money except your own.

Renee, so you think all the rich do is drink and buying prescription cuts into our money, your a total idiot for making that statement. You watch to many soap operas. There is also money out there for special needs children and schools have not drastically cut into funding classes for them. Maybe your too demanding on the schools that they don't want to work with you. Have you thought about getting an advocate to fight for your children in school as you say they aren't getting an education. You make assumptions about everyone else and I'm not your bank account, I take care of my family and my employees and your not one of them and quit looking for handouts from the rich to pay your bills.

b smith, they think obamacare is going to give them the best doctors, the best treatments, private rooms in hospitals. They are in for a rude awakening when they go they are calling around trying to get a doctors appointment for their free healthcare under obamacare. Not all doctors take medicaid and it is only going to get worse for them. Back in January the PCP practice that I go to quit taking medicaid. They will still end up going to the emergency room when they can't find a doctor that takes it or the ones that do take it won't be giving them an appointment till 3 or more months down the road.

Renee if you move from one company to another and as long as there is no lapse in coverage their is no pre-existing condition. I have employees with special needs children and as long as their isn't a lapse in coverage you can switch insurances every year to find the cheapest rate. If your picking up insurance they don't pay for the pre-existing for 1 year only and then they start to pay on it, so you proved again you don't know much about insurance or anything. Go ramble on as you make no sense at all.

You brought up children work and income.

Well, quite frankly Renee, you didn't say much to begin with.

Renee, Things have been changing and for the common good. We were in dire need of reform of Health Insurance, not just b/c of the outrageous costs , but to get more people insured and to uphold patient's rights. Once you accept that health care is a right and not a privilege, the whole discussion can change. I agree with you that there are a lot of reasonable persons, who look at this as a challenge to make our Country better for all the people. Keep the Faith, Renee.

b smith couldn't agree with you more.

b smith I never laughed so hard. Renee just needs to get off the tea cup ride at obamaland and to stay away from the kool-aid they are trying to pass off as lemonade from the make believe stand that obama had while he was a kid.

Isabella that is so true that they always accuse you of taking something away from them that they want to spend someone else money on. Spend your own money on your healthcare and quit looking for handouts from my bank account.

You're right Renee I cant fight it. You don't agree with cc Isabella roger concererned and I. And we cant force you to be correct and see the truth, you still have the freedom to voice an opinion, no matter how wrong or twisted it is.

No matter how many signs you put up, SHARKS IN WATER, there will always be someone saying you're infringing on their right to swim wherever they want.

Renee, you have changed your name 3 times now, does that make your fantasy land obamacare any better, no it doesn't. obamacare isn't going to help you when you can't find a doctor that takes obamacare or if they do then your going to wait 6 months for an appointment. Texas got it right, they aren't going to deal with obamacare and I see other states doing the same.

Funny how you are still commenting.

obama is insane and a liar, i dread if he gets elected again

CC - Pres. Obama is neither insane or a liar. The person who shot up the theater in Colorado is insane. Pres. Clinton was caught in a lie. Resorting to name-calling without justification is rude and juvenile.

Kelly
During the 2008 campaign, President Barack Hussein Obama cited his mother's experience as a cancer patient trying to get Cigna to pay for treatment for what her insurer said was a pre-existing condition. But it turned out that her correspondence showed that "the 1995 dispute concerned a Cigna disability insurance policy and that her actual health insurer had apparently reimbursed most of her medical expenses without argument."

Kelly
Obama credited the Selma, AL, march as where his parents first met. One little problem: The Selma march took place on March 7, 1965. Obama was born on August 4, 1961 (or at least that's the date on the birth certificate he produced). So Obama is lying about when his parents met, or he's lying about his birth date.

Kelly
On Nov. 10, 2007, Obama said , "I am in this race to tell the corporate lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda in Washington are over. They have not funded my campaign, they will not run my White House, and they will not drown out the voices of the American people when I am president." The Obama administration has hired former lobbyist Steve Ricchetti, a registered federal lobbyist for nearly a decade, to serve as counselor to Vice President Joe Biden. In fact, Ricchetti's firm made millions lobbying on behalf of clients such as Fannie Mae and General Motors, both of which have been recipients of taxpayer-funded bailouts. Although Obama signed an executive order codifying this pledge on his first full day in office, the administration has made use of a loophole in the order that permits waivers for former lobbyists to serve. In some cases, the administration has hired former lobbyists without a waiver. Obama appointed former Raytheon lobbyist William Lynn, who got a top job at the Pentagon.

Candidate Obama promised that he would make sure that there was always enough time for the public to read legislation before it was enacted, but he has done exactly the opposite, repeatedly pressing for even faster passage of even longer bills. Candidate Obama claimed that violent radical Bill Ayers was just another guy in his neighborhood, but the record shows that the two had worked closely together. Candidate Obama promised us that CIA personnel involved in the interrogation of terrorists would not be prosecuted, but his administration is now doing exactly that. Obama said that Caterpillar's CEO had told him that Caterpillar would begin hiring again as a result of the stimulus bill, but the CEO immediately announced that he had said no such thing, that Caterpillar would in fact be laying off more workers. Obama assured us that his health plan would never ration care, or "pull the plug" on grandma, but the legislation he backs sets up panels to make crucial decisions on when to withhold care, and it makes such deep cuts in Medicare that rationing is inevitable. Obama, in order to obtain passage of his first stimulus bill, assured us that 90 percent of the jobs created would be in the private sector, but as he well knew, most of them were to be in the public sector.

Shall I continue Kelly? Denial is not a river in Egypt more pies on what went on there as wellbut I'm tired of bursting the libs fantasy bubbles for the evening.

Agree b smith they are going to control who gets treatments, who isn't worth it and the senior citizens that don't have private insurance are the ones that are going to suffer under obamacare.